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	<title>Comments on: How to Avoid Growing GM Plants in your Garden</title>
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	<link>http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/2007/01/how-to-avoid-growing-gm-plants-in-your-garden/</link>
	<description>Heirloom gardening and the lives of Pat &#039;n&#039; Steph</description>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/2007/01/how-to-avoid-growing-gm-plants-in-your-garden/comment-page-1/#comment-34833</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 11:23:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=83#comment-34833</guid>
		<description>Hi Chris,

Best wishes with the garden!  

I hope it all goes well, and if you feel like it, please come back and let us know how it goes or ask more questions.  It would be great to hear from you again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Chris,</p>
<p>Best wishes with the garden!  </p>
<p>I hope it all goes well, and if you feel like it, please come back and let us know how it goes or ask more questions.  It would be great to hear from you again.</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/2007/01/how-to-avoid-growing-gm-plants-in-your-garden/comment-page-1/#comment-34827</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 10:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=83#comment-34827</guid>
		<description>cheers Patrick 
Thank you for the information and the links you have put my mind at ease.I will soon start my garden i hope to grow enough food to save some money,and have peace of mind on how its grown.I don&#039;t know anyone my age (21) who has a garden,but i think with all the problems with the financial system more people might start to grow there own food.We need to get down to the roots of living excuse the pun : )(e.g food water shelter)being self reliant.I often think how screwed we all would be if the grocers all closed.
thanks for the help Patrick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cheers Patrick<br />
Thank you for the information and the links you have put my mind at ease.I will soon start my garden i hope to grow enough food to save some money,and have peace of mind on how its grown.I don&#8217;t know anyone my age (21) who has a garden,but i think with all the problems with the financial system more people might start to grow there own food.We need to get down to the roots of living excuse the pun : )(e.g food water shelter)being self reliant.I often think how screwed we all would be if the grocers all closed.<br />
thanks for the help Patrick</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/2007/01/how-to-avoid-growing-gm-plants-in-your-garden/comment-page-1/#comment-34737</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 08:15:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=83#comment-34737</guid>
		<description>Hi Chris,

Thanks for stopping by and leaving a comment!

I think it&#039;s pretty rare for a person to be able to go out and intentionally buy a packet of GM seeds.  I think these are mostly only available to farmers, or at least only sold through farm supply stores.

It&#039;s always possible seeds you buy have been unintentionally contaminated with GM genes, through cross-pollinating when the seeds were produced.  Corn is one of the the biggest problems in this respect, because by nature it&#039;s an outbreeding plant, and the plants can spread pollen over great distances.  In addition, since I made this post here GM sugar beets have begun to be commercially grown which are also outbreeding, meaning beets of all kinds could potentially be contaminated.  All other plants are either inbreeding, or there are no commercially grown GM varieties, so the chance of contamination is very small.

If you grow any of the types of plants listed above in this post, there&#039;s always a small risk, but the risk isn&#039;t particularly greater with a packet of seeds than if you go to the supermarket and buy the vegetables there.

The best thing to do in general is buy your seeds, or get them free, from a more trustworthy place than a hardware store.  In Australia, both the Digger&#039;s Club:

http://www.diggers.com.au/

As well as the Seedsavers network are excellent sources of non-commercial seeds:

http://www.seedsavers.net/

Non-commercial seeds are much more likely to be produced by someone like you who wants to avoid GMOs, and Seedsavers is potentially a great way to meet other gardeners.  Non-commercial varieties are also almost always much more interesting.  

A friend of mine, Kate, who lives in Adelaide has a blog:

http://hillsandplainsseedsavers.blogspot.com/

She and others who are part of the blog are probably a great source of seeds and information about seeds.

As far as organic vs. conventional, I have heard the argument that if you buy organic seeds you are doing something positive for the environment, because they can&#039;t use chemical sprays.  In my opinion, this argument is pretty weak.  A large number of seeds can be made with a small number of plants, and the most commonly used sprays are to improve the cosmetics of food which aren&#039;t necessary to use when producing seeds.  I think the environmental impacts of producing seeds are pretty small in general.

Other than environmental issues, there is no fundamental difference between an organic seed or a conventional one.  When you plant a seed, all you care about is the DNA, and the rest of the seed rots away.  The potential amount of pesticide that could be in a conventionally produced seed is so infintesimally small, that it could not be significant.

The main problem with certified organic seeds, is the system of organic certification is used unfairly against small farmers and seed companies.  Even though there is no difference in quality between organic and non-organic seeds, the paperwork involved is so cumbersome and expensive that generally only larger companies can can afford it.  I did a post a little while ago about this:

http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=263

Seeds can sometimes be chemically treated.  This is something completely different, and you should never buy or use treated seeds.  The chemicals used for this are often very toxic.  By law, treated seeds have to be brightly colored.  If you come across seeds that are bright pink or green, or some other strange color, they have probably been treated.

If I didn&#039;t already answer your questions, you&#039;re welcome to list the seeds you bought here, and I&#039;ll tell you if I know anything about them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Chris,</p>
<p>Thanks for stopping by and leaving a comment!</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s pretty rare for a person to be able to go out and intentionally buy a packet of GM seeds.  I think these are mostly only available to farmers, or at least only sold through farm supply stores.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s always possible seeds you buy have been unintentionally contaminated with GM genes, through cross-pollinating when the seeds were produced.  Corn is one of the the biggest problems in this respect, because by nature it&#8217;s an outbreeding plant, and the plants can spread pollen over great distances.  In addition, since I made this post here GM sugar beets have begun to be commercially grown which are also outbreeding, meaning beets of all kinds could potentially be contaminated.  All other plants are either inbreeding, or there are no commercially grown GM varieties, so the chance of contamination is very small.</p>
<p>If you grow any of the types of plants listed above in this post, there&#8217;s always a small risk, but the risk isn&#8217;t particularly greater with a packet of seeds than if you go to the supermarket and buy the vegetables there.</p>
<p>The best thing to do in general is buy your seeds, or get them free, from a more trustworthy place than a hardware store.  In Australia, both the Digger&#8217;s Club:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.diggers.com.au/" rel="nofollow">http://www.diggers.com.au/</a></p>
<p>As well as the Seedsavers network are excellent sources of non-commercial seeds:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.seedsavers.net/" rel="nofollow">http://www.seedsavers.net/</a></p>
<p>Non-commercial seeds are much more likely to be produced by someone like you who wants to avoid GMOs, and Seedsavers is potentially a great way to meet other gardeners.  Non-commercial varieties are also almost always much more interesting.  </p>
<p>A friend of mine, Kate, who lives in Adelaide has a blog:</p>
<p><a href="http://hillsandplainsseedsavers.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://hillsandplainsseedsavers.blogspot.com/</a></p>
<p>She and others who are part of the blog are probably a great source of seeds and information about seeds.</p>
<p>As far as organic vs. conventional, I have heard the argument that if you buy organic seeds you are doing something positive for the environment, because they can&#8217;t use chemical sprays.  In my opinion, this argument is pretty weak.  A large number of seeds can be made with a small number of plants, and the most commonly used sprays are to improve the cosmetics of food which aren&#8217;t necessary to use when producing seeds.  I think the environmental impacts of producing seeds are pretty small in general.</p>
<p>Other than environmental issues, there is no fundamental difference between an organic seed or a conventional one.  When you plant a seed, all you care about is the DNA, and the rest of the seed rots away.  The potential amount of pesticide that could be in a conventionally produced seed is so infintesimally small, that it could not be significant.</p>
<p>The main problem with certified organic seeds, is the system of organic certification is used unfairly against small farmers and seed companies.  Even though there is no difference in quality between organic and non-organic seeds, the paperwork involved is so cumbersome and expensive that generally only larger companies can can afford it.  I did a post a little while ago about this:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=263" rel="nofollow">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=263</a></p>
<p>Seeds can sometimes be chemically treated.  This is something completely different, and you should never buy or use treated seeds.  The chemicals used for this are often very toxic.  By law, treated seeds have to be brightly colored.  If you come across seeds that are bright pink or green, or some other strange color, they have probably been treated.</p>
<p>If I didn&#8217;t already answer your questions, you&#8217;re welcome to list the seeds you bought here, and I&#8217;ll tell you if I know anything about them.</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/2007/01/how-to-avoid-growing-gm-plants-in-your-garden/comment-page-1/#comment-34729</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 06:09:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=83#comment-34729</guid>
		<description>Hi i have just bought a bunch of seeds from my local hardware store and i want to know if they could be gm.I am a soon to start my garden and i want to keep it all natural.I would be happy to list the type of seeds and the brands upon your reply if needed, or are gm seeds only sold to farmers, and also what is organic seeds and what are the pro&#039;s and con&#039;s.I am from Australia if that helps with your answer.

thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi i have just bought a bunch of seeds from my local hardware store and i want to know if they could be gm.I am a soon to start my garden and i want to keep it all natural.I would be happy to list the type of seeds and the brands upon your reply if needed, or are gm seeds only sold to farmers, and also what is organic seeds and what are the pro&#8217;s and con&#8217;s.I am from Australia if that helps with your answer.</p>
<p>thanks</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/2007/01/how-to-avoid-growing-gm-plants-in-your-garden/comment-page-1/#comment-34515</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=83#comment-34515</guid>
		<description>Hi Dan,

I think for most GM seeds you need to be a farmer to buy them.  You might try a farmers supply store or a farming seeds outlet.

Keep in mind you will almost certainly need chemicals to go with the seeds, that&#039;s how most commercial crops are.  For example, the same company makes Round Up ready seeds as well as the Round Up itself, and of course they want to make sure you end up paying twice, once for the seeds and once for the chemicals.  Some commercial varieties require dozens of chemicals to grow properly.

Good luck with your experiment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dan,</p>
<p>I think for most GM seeds you need to be a farmer to buy them.  You might try a farmers supply store or a farming seeds outlet.</p>
<p>Keep in mind you will almost certainly need chemicals to go with the seeds, that&#8217;s how most commercial crops are.  For example, the same company makes Round Up ready seeds as well as the Round Up itself, and of course they want to make sure you end up paying twice, once for the seeds and once for the chemicals.  Some commercial varieties require dozens of chemicals to grow properly.</p>
<p>Good luck with your experiment.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Bowen</title>
		<link>http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/2007/01/how-to-avoid-growing-gm-plants-in-your-garden/comment-page-1/#comment-34475</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Bowen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:10:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=83#comment-34475</guid>
		<description>Do you know where we can shop for genetically modified plants/seeds?  I&#039;d like to get a much bigger harvest for my time and energy (feed more people from my garden).  I realize you guys are too risk-averse to try it yourselves, but I don&#039;t mind, science is about testing your hypothesis.  My hypothesis is that GM food is fine, and I&#039;ll let you know how it turns out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you know where we can shop for genetically modified plants/seeds?  I&#8217;d like to get a much bigger harvest for my time and energy (feed more people from my garden).  I realize you guys are too risk-averse to try it yourselves, but I don&#8217;t mind, science is about testing your hypothesis.  My hypothesis is that GM food is fine, and I&#8217;ll let you know how it turns out.</p>
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		<title>By: Rebsie Fairholm</title>
		<link>http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/2007/01/how-to-avoid-growing-gm-plants-in-your-garden/comment-page-1/#comment-330</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebsie Fairholm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Feb 2007 19:53:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=83#comment-330</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m very grateful for this post, because although there&#039;s plenty of info out there about GM and its related issues there&#039;s very little specific info aimed at or meaningful to gardeners. And it&#039;s something which does worry me, because I have no means of testing my plants for GM contamination and no idea how big or small the risk really is.

I bought some tomato seeds from the US last year and afterwards had a minor panic over whether I might be importing something contaminated and risked releasing it into my other crops or the wider environment. But you&#039;ve helped put it in perspective ... an inbreeding plant which isn&#039;t subject to large-scale commercial GM crop production is probably very low risk. It&#039;s good to be vigilant though and conscious of your seed sources, as you say.

Just wanted you to know your efforts to research and write up this stuff are appreciated!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m very grateful for this post, because although there&#8217;s plenty of info out there about GM and its related issues there&#8217;s very little specific info aimed at or meaningful to gardeners. And it&#8217;s something which does worry me, because I have no means of testing my plants for GM contamination and no idea how big or small the risk really is.</p>
<p>I bought some tomato seeds from the US last year and afterwards had a minor panic over whether I might be importing something contaminated and risked releasing it into my other crops or the wider environment. But you&#8217;ve helped put it in perspective &#8230; an inbreeding plant which isn&#8217;t subject to large-scale commercial GM crop production is probably very low risk. It&#8217;s good to be vigilant though and conscious of your seed sources, as you say.</p>
<p>Just wanted you to know your efforts to research and write up this stuff are appreciated!</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/2007/01/how-to-avoid-growing-gm-plants-in-your-garden/comment-page-1/#comment-305</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:53:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=83#comment-305</guid>
		<description>Jorge - No need to apologize. Welcome! Please come back and share your experiences with us. That&#039;s great you are interested in seed saving. As you start to save seeds, I think you will find other people here interested in trading with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jorge &#8211; No need to apologize. Welcome! Please come back and share your experiences with us. That&#8217;s great you are interested in seed saving. As you start to save seeds, I think you will find other people here interested in trading with you.</p>
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		<title>By: JorgeSMartin</title>
		<link>http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/2007/01/how-to-avoid-growing-gm-plants-in-your-garden/comment-page-1/#comment-304</link>
		<dc:creator>JorgeSMartin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:04:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=83#comment-304</guid>
		<description>I apologize. Your assumption that I did not understand the context of your blog was correct. Thank you for your response; I will definitely look more into seed-saving.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I apologize. Your assumption that I did not understand the context of your blog was correct. Thank you for your response; I will definitely look more into seed-saving.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/2007/01/how-to-avoid-growing-gm-plants-in-your-garden/comment-page-1/#comment-289</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:57:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=83#comment-289</guid>
		<description>Hi Jorge,

Thank you for your comment.

I can understand coming across this post out of context and possibly not knowing anything about the theme of the blog behind it. Perhaps that&#039;s what happened here.

This is a blog about topics concerning seed savers, so gardeners who grow heirloom vegetables and other plants and save their own seeds for future plantings. In this case GM contamination, even in a small amount, is a big concern because it would be carried forward from year to year. We also trade seeds amongst each other, so contamination could pass from garden to garden.

A quick look through your company&#039;s catalog suggests you don&#039;t sell very many seeds suitable for seed savers, because most of your seeds seem to be F1 hybrids or at the very least patented varieties, so I think we are talking about two very different classes of seeds.

I have no reason to suspect there is anything wrong with the seeds your company, or indeed any other seed company sells, nor was it my intention to suggest this.

Far from being paranoid, I was trying suggest concern for this problem be put into proper perspective. For example, like we both said, most of the time plants can be inspected to see if they are true to type and no unintentional crossing has occurred.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jorge,</p>
<p>Thank you for your comment.</p>
<p>I can understand coming across this post out of context and possibly not knowing anything about the theme of the blog behind it. Perhaps that&#8217;s what happened here.</p>
<p>This is a blog about topics concerning seed savers, so gardeners who grow heirloom vegetables and other plants and save their own seeds for future plantings. In this case GM contamination, even in a small amount, is a big concern because it would be carried forward from year to year. We also trade seeds amongst each other, so contamination could pass from garden to garden.</p>
<p>A quick look through your company&#8217;s catalog suggests you don&#8217;t sell very many seeds suitable for seed savers, because most of your seeds seem to be F1 hybrids or at the very least patented varieties, so I think we are talking about two very different classes of seeds.</p>
<p>I have no reason to suspect there is anything wrong with the seeds your company, or indeed any other seed company sells, nor was it my intention to suggest this.</p>
<p>Far from being paranoid, I was trying suggest concern for this problem be put into proper perspective. For example, like we both said, most of the time plants can be inspected to see if they are true to type and no unintentional crossing has occurred.</p>
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		<title>By: JorgeSMartin</title>
		<link>http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/2007/01/how-to-avoid-growing-gm-plants-in-your-garden/comment-page-1/#comment-287</link>
		<dc:creator>JorgeSMartin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jan 2007 18:48:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=83#comment-287</guid>
		<description>I work in the seed lab at one of the larger catalog &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.parkseed.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreCatalogDisplay?catalogId=10066&amp;storeId=10101&amp;langId=-1&amp;mainPage=page1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;seed companies&lt;/a&gt; in the US. I know for a sure (Just called and confirmed a second ago) that we don&#039;t sell any GMO or treated seed. On the issue of contamination, personally, I don&#039;t know anything about it, but it seems highly unlikely. Every batch is tested to see if they are true to form. It seems slightly paranoid to assume that so many of the seeds you purchase are GM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I work in the seed lab at one of the larger catalog <a href="http://www.parkseed.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreCatalogDisplay?catalogId=10066&amp;storeId=10101&amp;langId=-1&amp;mainPage=page1" rel="nofollow">seed companies</a> in the US. I know for a sure (Just called and confirmed a second ago) that we don&#8217;t sell any GMO or treated seed. On the issue of contamination, personally, I don&#8217;t know anything about it, but it seems highly unlikely. Every batch is tested to see if they are true to form. It seems slightly paranoid to assume that so many of the seeds you purchase are GM.</p>
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